3DS File Format Wish List

Ok,



I'm now at work and working on jME :slight_smile:



First of all, I'll just say that I will be focusing on the 3D Studio Max 7 .3ds file support. As such, I'll be pushing for complete support for modern features. Here's your chance to make your needs be known, and get them in place. So, go ahead and list what you have found with your use of jME's .3ds exporter and what problems you are having. I can't promise anything, but will keep them in mind while working on the exporters capabilities.


One of the big things I’ve noticed has to do with the model’s center.  Sometimes when I export a model out of 3DS and load it into jME even though 3DS showed it to be perfectly centered to 0, 0, 0 it is off-center.  This could be user error, but something I’ve seen quite a few times.



Also, I’ve noticed when exporting models that have several parts it often won’t load properly (all the pieces load, but they are not where they should be) and I have to convert all the parts into one single object for export to make it work.



Being able to bring in full joint support from 3DS would be a great feature, especially if we can then utilize that information in jME-Physics.



Finally, I recently came across a problem with loading a model that had a net on it and the net looked fine in 3DS but when I exported it was solid white, see this post: http://www.jmonkeyengine.com/jmeforum/index.php?topic=2874.0



I’ve never tried this, but making sure we have full support for animations from 3DS would be a great feature also.  I’m assuming that’s probably already there, but thought I’d mention it just in case. :wink:



darkfrog

Hi there :slight_smile:

  I am having various introductory problems with loading multiple part models into jme using the convertor. For some of the models I have exported as 3DS models from 3ds max v 8 the models are somehow inside out. The model imports fine back into 3ds max 8.



As above it would be great to be able to import whole articulated models for use in the physics engine.



I'm not really sure what's wrong with this model or the convertor and don't know where to start looking!

Scenario



50 online people all in the same vacinity, everyone chooses which clothes to wear, some have different equipment. Some may have replacement limbs.



24 have the same legs, 20 have the same upper torso, 15 have blond hair, 3 have black, 9 have brown and one is bald, the rest wear hats so its hard to tell.



To model it in 3ds would require that each customisable part is a separate model, and that JME assembles the complete player form the parts ( limbs, head, torso ), and the texture ir reused where possible.



Is this possible… the texture uses a directory, so with fiddling looks like the texture can be individual, but it is very hard to attach a parts using models





Edit :- is 3ds the most appropiate format going forward ???. cep quoted .obj and another format

Dose this mean you are dropping the .jme format?




kidneybean said:

Scenario

50 online people all in the same vacinity, everyone chooses which clothes to wear, some have different equipment. Some may have replacement limbs.

24 have the same legs, 20 have the same upper torso, 15 have blond hair, 3 have black, 9 have brown and one is bald, the rest wear hats so its hard to tell.

To model it in 3ds would require that each customisable part is a separate model, and that JME assembles the complete player form the parts ( limbs, head, torso ), and the texture ir reused where possible.

Is this possible... the texture uses a directory, so with fiddling looks like the texture can be individual, but it is very hard to attach a parts using models


Edit :- is 3ds the most appropiate format going forward ???. cep quoted .obj and another format


You can do this in jme. You just need a different model for each body part. You then can replace the nodes in an animated body with the varies parts. This can be done with any format converted to .jme, I do not see what it has to do with the 3ds format.

Is this something new Badmi ???, i couldnt do several weeks ago



edit - it might mean that mojo has a specific task

Badmi, I think all Mojo is referencing is the conversion from 3DS to the JME format or direct import.  This is not dropping any current features that exist, rather polishing a feature that is already here.



People seem so eager to think everything is changing for the worse. :-p



darkfrog

I had several problems with the 3ds converter in my projects:

  • wrong center (like darkfrog), easy to reproduce: create three boxes like a coordinate cross at 0,0,0; rotate them individually -> no problem; select them all and rotate -> wrong pos in jME
  • specific objects were sometimes displaced :-o (seem to loose rotation and/or position); I wasn't able to reproduce that reliably
  • groups were needed - I introduced very basic support for it (results in nodes)

    nice to have features:
  • specifying bound type would be nice - though I don't know which 3ds attribute to use for it
  • physics would be really great, but I think Max does not even export its physics to 3ds



    great you're working on 3ds, I could really use some fixes there :smiley: and weren't able to focus on that yet

Apart of already mentioned problems i think i would like to have more features in jme format.

Replcaement of bodyparts and easy additions to a body (like equipment).

So i would ask for a conversion of 3ds-"groups" to jme-"nodes" with each node attached (and thus detachable) to the next node while preserving the bone structure.

At the moment all seems to be spatials under one node.

maybe nice if you specify youre own texture ( maybe you can ) as an image - this will allow one to use the 2d imaging api to add health effects etc

Ok, thanks for the input.



First let me say that I won't be working on the 3DS model loader, as it is a .3ds loader (where .3ds is getting up there in age and doesn't support true bone animations (although .max does)). I will be working on the ASE loader, using it simply as an ASCII version of .max (i.e. export from 3D Studio Max to ASE). (In the future I may create a true .max loader).



That being said, I've already gotten the ASE loader working significantly better than it is in CVS. Currently the only (non-animation) feature not supported is submaterials, as it's a different concept than how jME handles the material (i.e. a per face material rather than per node). Complex models are currently loading a displaying correctly now (unless submaterials are used).



This format will also support true bones, including bone animation as well as connectors.



So, now as far as your comments:



Centers being off (also related to multiple parts being in multiple places): This is because the *NODE_TM (node's transform matrix) entry was ignored. This will be handled.



Models wearing clothing… this will be supported as that's what I am currently working with. A base model wearing some underwear, and can put a suit of armor on.



I can't promise when this will be contributed back (I also can't promise that the focused format won't change again :wink: ), we'll be working on it for a little while. I can assure you that when it is contributed back that it will be polished.


That's awesome. :)  I'm assuming, "better than it is in CVS" means it actually will load a model? :-p



If ASE supports everything necessary that would be great…however, being able to just directly load a .max file into a game would be extremely cool. :wink:



I'll be holding my breath for this to be contributed back, so tell your superiors that if they don't want a purple frog on their hands they better give approval. :o



This is really exciting as model loading has been a major facet of jME that I think has been lacking and I look forward to seeing it progress.



darkfrog

darkfrog said:

If ASE supports everything necessary that would be great....however, being able to just directly load a .max file into a game would be extremely cool. ;)


an adjusted ASE maybe, but .max may  cut alot of people out of the loop, if it is contributed back i.e. AFAIK .max are intentionally prevented from being backwards compatible.
mojomonk said:


I can't promise when this will be contributed back (I also can't promise that the focused format won't change again ;) ), we'll be working on it for a little while. I can assure you that when it is contributed back that it will be polished.

I presume (or say hope) that "when" doesnt correspond to "if".
I think there is a (for me) quite relevant question relatied to contributing things back.
You didnt yet make a statement on that.
Can you give us any information on what policy your new employer has concerning contributions (just in general).
I have a game of that company on my "to buy" list at the moment if that helps ;)

Mojo: Does the current .jme format suffice for the planned features or are You going to extend that as well ?

Todi++ for bribery!  :-o



darkfrog

winkman: It's going to almost certainly require extending… but at this point, we have to evaluate if going with .jme is right for us. If we do go forward with it, it will be further improved to support more features.

darkfrog said:
If ASE supports everything necessary that would be great....however, being able to just directly load a .max file into a game would be extremely cool. ;)


If I remember correctly you cant use the .max formant, do to the fact the formant is secret and the fact it would violate 3ds max's licence but I may be confusing it with gmax's format.

Mojo,



As im sure you are aware , if there are any issues which sway against using jme, there is a whole community that would like to iradicate those issues in the hope that jme will be youre chosen platform going forward.

hehe, I think he meant the .JME model file format as opposed to loading directly from .ASE, .3DS, or .MAX directly.  :-o



darkfrog