Am I allowed to hire / Recruit on Jmonkeyengine,org

OK,



I am gearing up to make a small game using java - I am doing the 3D / 2D art side of things for the game.



I only know some very basic java. So here goes my question -



Am I allowed to recruit or hire on this site?



If so where do I put my Work for Hire / Recruitment Thread?



Thank you for your time,



Ben Stanley

I’ve no idea about the answer to your question but just a quick warning that Hire = $£ = expensive if you want a good programmer… and getting a not-good programmer will cost more than it saves in the long run.

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People have done it before in the past, so i see no reason why you cant do it. Maybe put it in the User Projects section, also how much $ do you have to spend? and you cant do the “you will get money after we sell the game” strategy it seldom ever works.

I assume this is unpaid work you’re talking about? Either way it’s fine as long as you’re transparent, professional and realistic about it. You should post in Free Announcements.



Be very clear about what you’ll be adding to the project, and what type of team dynamics developers should expect (e.g. do you want to be 100% in charge of the game design? this can be a good thing btw). Scope is also key. The fewer projects you’ve finished already, the shorter your timeline should be.



The easiest way to get people on board on projects like these is to do any ground work you’re capable of yourself.

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Hey all,



Thank you all for the replies. :slight_smile: I would have replied sooner just I have been sleeping.



@zarch - Note taken and thank you for the heads up. You got a +1 for that :slight_smile:



@wezrule - I was planning to spend 50.00 upfront with a bi monthly wage of 50.00 USD. But in all honesty that would be stretching it with Life. As that is my Emergency spending money. I am also planning on doing a kick starter for this project of mine (ours if I can find a programmer) as soon as I have something to show to the public Demo or prototype Game play.



@erlend_Sh - Pretty much that is what I am leaning towards. However I do not want the programmer that I will be working with to go unpaid for to long. Which is where the kickstarter would come in.



As for being transparent I will start now.



I already have some partial plans in place for starting a business. Just need to finish them up and submit them to the State. :slight_smile:



Design documents I do not tend to like too long and tend to add to the scope for me at least. I use a sort of concept document that is 4 to 15 pages long. All critical game play/Game Mechanics information is listed in there.

Engage brutal honesty mode


  1. There are very few programmers out there who do not already have more ideas for things they want to do than they have time to do it. Your odds of getting one on board without paying them a proper salary are low. To put that in perspective senior Java contractors in London get 400->500 UKP a DAY. (That’s $700 for the Americans). Obviously London is expensive, additionally junior guys are cheaper, as are salaried as opposed to contractors; but you aren’t in a position to offer a salary and as already said getting a junior guy has its own costs in the long run.



    I’ve done contracts before for people who could afford a few hundred dollars. They got me for a few hours to review their code and help with architecture design, etc. That won’t get you very far if you need a game writing from scratch.


  2. Kickstarters are a great concept - but you need something to get people on board. That generally means having a proven track record in the field. In other words you need to have some games out there and successful that you can show. Also consider the rates I said above. Any reasonable kickstarter is going to burn through extremely fast when you consider the time needed to develop a game.



    It’s a catch 22 everyone hits. In order to get money/people you need a successful product. In order to get a successful product you need money/people.





    So my advice - don’t offer money at all. I can’t find a link to it off hand but it’s been shown in pretty comprehensive studies that in many cases where someone would help you for free they won’t help if you offer an amount that’s too low as it changes the nature of the contract. People will help you carry something up the stairs for free, just being a good neighbour. Offer them $5 to do it though and they’ll be insulted as now it’s a business proposition and their time and effort is worth more than $5.





    You say you are doing the 3d models and artwork. Great. That puts you in a really good position as you will find lots of developers here who suck at that. The problem is they all have their own ideas. Create some good models and artwork first to showcase what you can do and then use that to look for people to team up with.



    The trouble is you can’t expect to be dictating what and when the team will be working on, that will need to be agreed within the team. Most likely you will both come up with the ideas, agree a game concept - divide up the jobs, etc. Do a small game to start with and make sure ownership, profit share, etc is well defined in advance.



    Oh, and have a contingency plan for if the person you are working with flakes out and disappears.



    Good luck :smiley:
4 Likes
@zarch said:
So my advice - don't offer money at all. I can't find a link to it off hand but it's been shown in pretty comprehensive studies that in many cases where someone would help you for free they won't help if you offer an amount that's too low as it changes the nature of the contract. People will help you carry something up the stairs for free, just being a good neighbour. Offer them $5 to do it though and they'll be insulted as now it's a business proposition and their time and effort is worth more than $5.


so true
@zarch said:
~ Snip ~


1. I got a interested programmer funny enough. :) Going to reply to him. If anyone can offer any advice please do it now.

2. I can see this happening - Although I do not intend on spending the money on hero engine or a UDK source license. aka VERY expensive.
Mainly just salaries, Web hosting, and tech costs.

3. ALWAYS have a contingency plan. I have learned this the easy way when i was not in a dev lead position.
@headclot said:
1. I got a interested programmer funny enough. :) Going to reply to him. If anyone can offer any advice please do it now.


Also, "brutal honesty mode", I wouldn't trust anyone that responded to that proposal. :P Finding a skilled developer just looking for an idea is like finding a three-eared elephant. So chances are good they are not skilled or already have plenty to do.

@headclot said:
2. I can see this happening - Although I do not intend on spending the money on hero engine or a UDK source license. aka VERY expensive.
Mainly just salaries, Web hosting, and tech costs.


They're used to be a saying about "an idea and 50 cents being enough to get a cup of coffee"... but even that isn't true anymore. After all, these days ideas are a dime a dozen and coffee costs a lot more the 50 cents.

I have no idea what your actual plans are but I can say with certainty that there is no such thing as a "killer idea" on its own.
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@pspeed -



I am at least going to ask him for his portfolio. Just to make sure.



Also - It appears that he just wants to hear out my plans. I am guessing out of curiosity I could be wrong.

I’d just like to put some thought in here. Isn’t jME developed around the philosophy of a 3D CG artist and programmer working together regardless the size of the team behind them?



And if Ideas are a dime a dozen, good ideas that is. Then why is Hollywood and a lot of game developers constantly re-working and releasing games and movies on sequel after sequel? Where are all these dime a dozen Ideas you’re speaking of?



Just bringing up some thoughts and ideas i’ve had while trying to work out some possibilities in the idea of possibly working on creating some content from the indie developer standpoint.

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@lwsquad said:
I'd just like to put some thought in here. Isn't jME developed around the philosophy of a 3D CG artist and programmer working together regardless the size of the team behind them?

And if Ideas are a dime a dozen, good ideas that is. Then why is Hollywood and a lot of game developers constantly re-working and releasing games and movies on sequel after sequel? Where are all these dime a dozen Ideas you're speaking of?

Just bringing up some thoughts and ideas i've had while trying to work out some possibilities in the idea of possibly working on creating some content from the indie developer standpoint.


Because new ideas are so impossibly hard to make work that few succeed out of the hundreds and thousands that are tried.

Every market has their "indie scene" and there are some real gems there among the thousands and thousands of really bad ideas. Movies, music, etc. The problem is that it's really impossible to know what a good idea is until it's implemented. Bad ideas succeed in the implementation and otherwise good ideas fail in the wrong hands. Implementation is king.

I may have been jumping to conclusions since so few details (ie: none) were shared. That is sometimes the sign of "My idea is so cool that if I told anyone then they'd implement it themselves and make millions"... which is really never the case. But maybe I've read too many threads that are the game equivalent of "I've got a great idea for a book but I just need someone to write it for me..."
@lwsquad said:
I'd just like to put some thought in here. Isn't jME developed around the philosophy of a 3D CG artist and programmer working together regardless the size of the team behind them?

And if Ideas are a dime a dozen, good ideas that is. Then why is Hollywood and a lot of game developers constantly re-working and releasing games and movies on sequel after sequel? Where are all these dime a dozen Ideas you're speaking of?

Just bringing up some thoughts and ideas i've had while trying to work out some possibilities in the idea of possibly working on creating some content from the indie developer standpoint.


THIS is why i want to stay indie. Big Publishers really limit creative freedom on their developers.
@lwsquad said:
And if Ideas are a dime a dozen, good ideas that is. Then why is Hollywood and a lot of game developers constantly re-working and releasing games and movies on sequel after sequel? Where are all these dime a dozen Ideas you're speaking of?


Because that's less of a gamble to use "old ideas" that will (probably) work than new ideas that might work. As long as they can milk a franchise you can bet they will.

I'm not against the idea of reusing old ideas, if it makes sense. But if it's just to make money, not so much.
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Yeeh, Madjack has it exactly right. It’s all about risk.



A proven franchise is a much less risky proposition than anything new. A sequel has immediately advantages for selling to the people who already liked the previous one.



It can backfire (i.e. Dragon Age 2 which was dire) but even then it succeeds (I bought DA2 before I discovered how dire it was. Played it for not very long, got pissed off at being conned out of my money, probably wouldn’t buy a DA3 if they made one …).



When you are sinking millions into a game though anything that makes that investment safer makes it more attractive. Going to an invester and saying “we sold X million units of black ops 1, we want money to make black ops 2” is much easier than going in and saying “we have this great idea, we think it will do really well”.

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Then why is Hollywood and a lot of game developers constantly re-working and releasing games and movies on sequel after sequel?


It's not only sequels as such it's almost every game. Look at Fable/Elder Scrolls/other fantasy games. It's the way our brain works: "Everything is just a copy of a copy of a copy of...." (quote from "Fight Club" by Chuck Palahniuk). New stuff happens when our brain mixes things that it knows. Art and science work like that for thousands of years.

Btw this is a good argument against patents on ideas ;)