A whole bunch of problems mixed in couple posts, part of that is not only non-JME scope, but not even in “a game engine” scope at all. If not such technically referred sometimes, I’d consider trolling, seriously. If TS wants to obtain community’s expertise on all these topics, they should be probably asked separately (and probably w/o pathetic claims “I KNOW KUNG-FU NOW, YOU, POOR WORMS !” which this thread sort of looks like now).
And, if I got the conclusion right: “Your toolbox is shit, I’ll switch to something I don’t know to what”. Wow, really exciting. Definitely it was worth its time to study JME to say that.
p.s. speaking of global tendencies - yep, IT world tends to shift the processing power from under your desk to the cloud, and web technologies evolve accordingly, but today’s hardware limitations don’t allow you to have “virtual GPU”, more than that, it is even difficult to scale what you have under your desk (Quad SLI - and that’s it, right?) Despite that we can see potential approaches of how to overcome that (e.g. Infiniband etc) - any possible solution is still too expensive for mass market. And will be for next 5-10 years, I presume. Thus, no browser (even considered “thick” terminal) approach will dominate on game market. So making claims “browsers are the future of games” must involve estimates of how distant that future is, to be useful, I guess
Just my 2 cents - this is exactly why I use JME instead of the alternatives I have tried (including Unreal). I know people who use Unreal and Unity, and none of them are programmers. When I see this sort of stuff all done for me it actually feels like it’s getting in the way - I want to do things my own way, very specifically.
I have made my own character collision using tools (ray tests) JME provided, but since switched back to bettercharactercontrol - suits my needs perfectly, but if it didn’t the option to enhance it is right there. I have made an extensive branching UI, and all I needed was the ability to draw a image on the screen, anything more and I get put off.
If you mean 3d animation I do not understand since it’s there, if you mean 2d, again I would much rather make a system myself, which again I have for my pre rendered background project. Or do you mean included stock animations like Riccardo said? That seems weird too, who wants to use stock animations, and you’re still gonna have to make animations for your specific needs. It’s not like there arn’t a tonne of places to get animations anyway, like the link that has been posted on this very site with in depth guides on how to use them.
The more I’m learning about programming the more impressed I’m becoming with JME actually. I’ve got my own complete separate lighting system and it was a breeze to implement into JME. In fact looking back at when I started with JME, I’ve learn’t more from JME than every other piece of game related software combined.
I don’t get the bit about humans, they’re just an art asset no? You can download a free add-on for blender that provides customization humans, both the detail and the specifics. Should JME offer theses as well? Perhaps a “click here to make your game” button?
Unfortunately I started typing this before I got to this bit:
[quote=“bubuche, post:15, topic:37971”]
They are brand, people who made it are very proud to see their little fetishist word and the rest of the world just have to endure it.
A physic engine called “physic”, a network engine called “network” and a gui engine called “gui”, would be too easy. So, let’s call the render engine “ILikeUnihorn”[/quote]
and now I realize I have wasted my time replying. EDIT: slightly more than 2 cents
well… good luck finding the engine “engine” and I’m looking forward to see your game “game”.
Again, why so shallow? Why just “Perfect Engine” or “Absolute Game”? I’d suggest “Universal Program” for both tasks.
Same. It really has an amazing, flexible, and powerful architecture. The more I dig into engine internals the more I find this to be the case.
Well it’s because yu go and the car doesn’t.
I hope you enjoy your world where everything, from the pen to the sit, to the door of the car and actually each piece of it etc. has a brand name that you have to use when you want to do anything.
Go on, like i said, call the Renderer (what a generic name, blah) FluffyPonies and the Mesh “Togoyople”. Use brand name on every single class, every single method and every single variable. Go on, branding is so much fun.
Or, you try to understand that branding is something that you should keep at the lowest level possible. AAA games do have branding part in them. For example, when they use the Unreal Engine, they will display its icon etc. But it’s because they balance the “problem” of +1 brand and the “problem” of redoing it from scratch. JME is a very small engine (Because between “having things done” and “having things done in the ultra-optimized way” you have miles, 'll talk more about it below) and has way too much branding in it for what it does.
Again, just stop being a fervent adept of your religion, just try to figure out why the unreal engine 4 has already games made with it, even if it has been released way after jme. Why resident evil 7 has its own game engine, not developed on top of jme.
It’s not about the price, jme is free. So, why ?
The answer is easy : because jme give so little thing that nothing will be usable in the game.
It’s like shoes : if you go outside to buy a bread, you’ll not put sport chooses. If you go to walk 100km, you’ll buy expensive but high quality sport chooses.
Jme is poor quality sport chooses. If you do a very little game, you don’t need it. If you go for a bigger game, no stock algorithm will be usable, and you’ll have to redo everything, so you don’t need it.
I have been using jme for a long time now. And i am a programmer (master 2).
I didn’t say it’s shit. Actually, I’ll likely keep using it to show students that it’s possible to make 3D, that it isn’t as hard as it seems. But beyond technical presentation or very very small survival/race game, I’ll likely don’t use it anymore.
I want to make games. I don’t want to program. I agree to program if it’s a way to make game. But it’s not the case here.
Stock skeletal animation that works automagically with this very specific bone skeletal (i let you choose which one) so I can have a walking character I made interact with other characters i made and not only a ninja hitting Oto.
Walk, run, sit, lay down and move an arm and head in a very generic “i am talking” animation. Yes, you are right, we need magic for that.
Better keep doing first person shooter with no hands and no other aim that flying robots which, at least, doesn’t require animations. And cars, cause somebody dropped an algorithm to have cars, so you have a lot of race game made from it.
And cube worlds, cause it’s feasible with no animation, no stock assets, no other characters, no dialogs, no script, nothing.
I can’t disagree more. You don’t have 100 different items if you are in space fighting other vehicles.
But when you are, you know, in common places, a house, an office etc, you’ll have way more items. Books, pens, chairs, tables, doors, lamps in the hallway, some piece of paper here and there, keys etc.
Details, you know ?
Make a concert theater : a scene, a ground and a roof, ok, that’s easy. But now : chairs (lot of them) tables (lot of them), on each table food, glasses, bottles. Likely humans sitting here and there, with clothes.
At human size, there is a lot of items. Without them, the place looks clean (which is not a bad thing) but it will eventually looks … well, empty.
I want to make a game in a very clean high tech (in the android mode : clean, no details) space station. I did that on purpose, so i can have avoid the problem of having many tree/grass/ground/dirt everywhere, cars etc. It’s already the most “not human”, sterile place i can have without going to “virtual world made by some ia, only contain white walls and the interactible item in the center of the room”.
JMonkeyEngine does 1% of a full game engine with already 100x the number of brand in a full game engine. 1%, because between “show a cube” and “display 1000 zombies” steps are not : “show a cube → show a zombie → multiply by 1000 = show 1000 zombies”.
No, the first part is easy (and easier with opengl nowadays, you don’t have to do that big part of the maths) and the way to “1000 zombies” is where the hard stuff will be.
And no rebuild will remove that fact that, if you need the very basic stuff you can do it and if you need advanced stuff you will have to do soooooo much thing that redo the jme part will be easy. Actually, you should then redo it to be sure of what is inside and be sure that a limitation-that-you-didn’t-see will appear.
A week ago i was looking on “how update a subpart of a mesh without re-uploader the whole buffer to the gpu”. It’s feasible on opengl, not in jme.
Like the portal culling i already mentioned, for which you need to use some opengl call to “count” rendered pixels. And without it, you pretty much can’t do any interior.
JESTERRRRRR : your post was especially interesting, i’ll answer it later.
Short answer : yes, you learn a lot of things with jme.
But i want to make a game. Not program for the pleasure of programming. Not to learn for the pleasure of learning, no to make a technical demo of something for the pleasure of technical demoing.
And about humans, it’s not an asset problem. I do have human assets, even with cloths, thanks to makehuman. I perfectly know that i’ll need to “update” the cloth if my game get more professional, but they are good enough “stock” clothes.
The problem is that because jme can do everything (like a man with cement … you know) it doesn’t do anything.
Let’s take a minute to talk about modern game. I think that jme should “branch” to a bit specialized version including things from the range “fps” to “rpg”, as they joined a lot last years.
Health, inventory (per grid/per list with uncumbrance or not), stamina, crafting, dialog trees, shortcut edition, some animation, the notion of cells (interiors etc), books, equipment …
And, after i said that i said … nothing. As you can see, this match a very broad quantity of games.
And, actually, if you open the good old morrowind editor, you’ll see what jme should have. Cause you can create a very wide variety of games with it. It’s basically a database editor, coupled with a scene viewer and a dialog tree that works with filter. It’s more than an rpg, it’s an editor for a specific game and, still, is already multipurpose. If you want to tell your story, you’ll be able to. You can even create hi-tech assets, put them in the game and you’ll get a completely different game.
You can write code if you want (there is a scripting possibility) but you don’t need to, most of time.
It’s what i wrote in the “wishlist”
I would have liked to read this thread completely for some varied viewpoints, but it turned a bit too caustic.
It’s okay to disagree and still be civil - chill, y’all.
xD There’s not really too many places to go from here beyond a quotation war. That’s that imo
I said i delayed this post. Now you know why. Do you think i could have found a better way to say it ?
Mmm sometimes you’re better off saying nothing at all. Not that it matters either way.
If you’re asking me, dunno - not blaming anyone in particular, I just hate to see the infighting.
It’s what i did for 2 month. I wanted to say that early december. And I started to do what i say, a database editor coupled with a 3D scene. With swing, as i think that creating process is never done on android away way.
And i didn’t talk about the saving problem in jme, but i think that i got enough hate toward my person like this.
Ahh don’t take is as hate (or maybe from some I don’t know) just strong differences in opinion. I think you knew that was gonna happen anyway hence the delay - and we’re back in a circle. Gl with your work regardless.
I caved and read a bit more. I’m more sympathetic with the browser architecture complaints. But I don’t think the criticism of jME is fair (or was framed in the best way), especially when being compared (seemingly) to commercial stuff. Nobody’s getting paid to work on this, so I’m not sure where that is coming from.
But honestly, yeah this could have been communicated better than it was about halfway into the thread above.
Was the intent here just to blow off steam (understood completely), or something else?
We pissed bubuche off some years ago and he’s been super critical of everything ever since. Just a “haters gonna hate” situation.
Essentially, he thought he was going to a five star restaurant but instead he’s found a kitchen co-op where all levels of chefs get together to share equipment and sauces, (you have to bring your own knives and skills, though)… then he complains the whole time that the waiter hasn’t brought him the wine list yet.
No, this is provably false. You have no interest in making games… unless your game is “trolling forums”… then bravo, your game is getting played lots by one user.
I normally try to avoid threads like this, but I’ve got a strange fascination going on. I’ve got to ask:
What does this even mean? The are no set standards of programming skill like the are in martial arts or RPG character levels…
And the moment you have a human charter that deviates slightly from the bone proportions in the stock animation, you need a new set of animations. So, only good for demos?
I’d like to see a scene where all of this was modeled and interactable. I’m most cases, there will be relatively few ‘real’ objects in the scene. The rest will be batched into bigger, monolithic meshes. Many of the ‘objects’ will be little more complex than a billboard.
- chairs: instanced
- tables: instanced
- food, glasses, etc: 2-4 variants each, instanced and with randomized positions and rotations
- 4-6 low-detail NPC models, instanced with several color variations for the clothing and skin tone, possibly hardware skinning for randomized poses from a limited animation reprotoire
The above is an approximation of how a ‘AAA’ game might do such a scene.
One thing I agree on is “a man with cement, that can do everything” analogy for JME. And that’s one of the main reasons I like it. Having those features as “dialogs”, “human characters” etc implemented any sort of “standard” way would mean we have one more specialized framework that we have to obey and which would limit of what we can do right from the start. I’m not interested in making one more clone, even a clone of some AAA game. This can be very interesting for learning purposes, but where is “creating” in this? If the most creative part of some RPG you create is what you fill “standard dialogs” with, then you should probably write books, not making games.
Of course, if to take what I said to the extreme, nothing is more flexible (yet) than to program in “1” and “0” in the end, but I remember the times we were integrating ogre, boost, some paging landscape manager with poor docs and bunch of other stuff together, and thanks, not again. The only thing that had no integration troubles that time I can recall was probably openal. So we had more restrictions and less stability with every new piece added. JME is natively integral toolbox. A blank piece of white paper waiting for you to create whatever you wish. And you complain on that it is not a colouring book. Well, indeed it is not, that’s why it is so great