Actually I just wnated to try it out, but it is impossible for me to get that patch applied. Could you maybee just post the full modified files?
Everybody knows Jobs was a control freak but as said, if its a control freak who cares that my computer runs optimal then why would I care? Thats my point. Jobs wanted to make the best OS, phone w/e. Gates just wanted to be the #1 OS by all means. Obviously the better software results from the former approach and I’d also trust it more in general.
@madjack said:
Apple should apologize and accept the responsibility and pay back any loss. They would expect that if the roles were reversed.
Lol, no not really. They write their own drivers, remember? And responsibility/loss is hard to frame, every software/hardware sold says its not responsible in the fine print. They do care about issues and adapt the rules all the time but obviously they also care about their values.
@madjack said:
They're learning to let go. It's a slow process, but hopefully you guys will harvest the fruit of that.
Let go of what? If it wasn't for iPhone apple would still be an underdog. Nobody cared about their ways before they got big with the phone. Mac users could happily use their machines without random people on the street starting to ridicule them for being "disciples" or paying too much.
@madjack said:
Also, there is a whole lot more resources available to fix (and break) Windows. So, in the end, it comes down to readily available information, and the dissemination of information. In other words, it's a whole lot easier to find info on how to "break" your windows than it is for the Mac. Besides, being more expensive, this means less kids experimenting...
My point exactly. I would not buy any device where people consider it normal that you have to open and rewire it all the time to work properly, I mean what the fuck? And ofc you can break a mac by randomly pulling wires (like really command line ugly stuffs) but like you say if its not common to do that and there is no UI options for such killswitch-prone shit then it simply won't happen as often.
Again, I am not trying to explain away the rightful space for PC's in this market but you still seem to try to do so for macintoshes. I know for myself that there is a rightful place for these devices (with the price, rigid control and everything) because I am part of that market and I don't lie in my own pocket about how well my computers really support my constructivity instead of hindering it. And note I actually do use macs and didn't just look at one at work for five minutes getting annoyed I don't find the "@". All PC users complaining about macs really just complain that there is macs at all and that they have to cope with the fact that it might mean theres a better option than the one they chose.
The walled garden approach of apple is good for less technical users who just want stuff to work and I’ve actually recommended it to a few having asked about their requirements. I personally would find it incredibly frustrating to be so constrained though… and I know even non-techie users who have got tripped up by some stuff. (For example lack of flash support meaning my girlfriend’s mum can’t access a bunch of her favourite websites from her ipad).
It’s not so much the stuff slipping through the cracks on the istore that’s the problem. It’s more the inconsistency and double standards (i.e. equivelant apps: some refused, some approved), exporting of american censorship, etc. Apple have appointed themselves the moral as well as technical guardian of what can and can’t be run on their systems…and you haven’t even started on the subject of running Java etc.
This conversation does seem a bit off topic though, should it be split out to a separate thread?
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@zarch said:
The walled garden approach of apple is good for less technical users
Nah, why? Even if I know how to make a loudspeaker why would I build one myself _each time_? As an audio pro I'm not exactly "less technical" but still I don't want a friggin model kit but a working computer.
@zarch said:
This conversation does seem a bit off topic though, should it be split out to a separate thread?
This thread is the mac conversation thread now ^^ I already tried that once and made a separate thread for everybody who wants to teach me about how apple sucks but in the end theres not much to say except "I feel discomfort with macs around me" and that discomfort will always stir up such thread hijacks again ;) Don't worry, the original content won't be lost, everybody knows about the tesselation contribution.
@normen said:
Nah, why? Even if I know how to make a loudspeaker why would I build one myself _each time_? As an audio pro I'm not exactly "less technical" but still I don't want a friggin model kit but a working computer.
Last time I used a mac computer they had a single button mouse...so I'm not commenting on that as I don't know enough either way. (Although from what I've seen they are overpriced for the spec you get).
I'm commenting on the phones/tablets/etc that don't let me choose what software I put on them...but instead make the choice for me and require me to hack my own phone if I want to change it...
I wanted to wait after a “night” sleep before responding but might as well do it now.
Maybe I haven’t been clear before; I have nothing against Macs themselves. In fact I welcome them. The problem is with Apple. What @zarch says is also true about the app store. I can’t comment fully since I barely use it. I try to stay away from it because I honestly barely use my iPod touch as a matter of fact and the apps I do have are free and are just to pass time when I know I’ll have to wait. And, of course, to play music.
Again, it’s not about Macs for me. Yes, they are weird and overpriced computers that do their jobs well, as well as PCs as a matter of fact. But Apple’s elitist attitude is really what’s making my nose wrinkle in disgust.
I will get a Mac one day too see what all this noise is all about eventually, but odds are I’ll stick with my 9-button mouse. (The heresy of having only 1 button on a mouse! :O) 
@iamcreasy said:
@normen How stable is Windows on Apple hardware?
Pretty good from what I hear (I don't use this option). I know a guy who only buys MacBooks and then puts Linux on it "so he also has a proper OS" and he's a serious hardware pro (fixing digital desks etc). Its simply very good hardware and you don't get anything much cheaper prebuilt (!) on the PC market with that quality. Obviously if you only put out one line of notebooks they have to be perfect.
@madjack: I hear you but its what I appreciate. You care to make my experience great and thus need control? I happily give it to you, take away the pain please. I myself am not "controlled" in any way by that, I can still choose to make a windows box and run cracked games in the time I save building my computer for work.
@zarch A non-jailbroken iPhone is not at all closed or anything, it just keeps apps from doing stuff that would be bad cause it drains battery etc.
@madjack said:
I will get a Mac one day too see what all this noise is all about eventually, but odds are I'll stick with my 9-button mouse. (The heresy of having only 1 button on a mouse! :O) ;)
Do they still only have one button? I figured they'd have grown out of that in the 15 years since I last used one...
@zarch said:
Do they still only have one button? I figured they'd have grown out of that in the 15 years since I last used one...
Last time I really used a Mac they didn't even have a mouse. XD lol
@madjack said:
Last time I really used a Mac they didn't even have a mouse. XD lol
And here you are telling us what they do can't be good.
Yeeh? I’ve 4 buttons + clickable scrollwheel on my mouse and I use them all.
As I said before my experience of apple desktops is 15 years out of date so I’m not really going to comment on that.
To extend your speaker analogy - you may not have to build your own speaker each time - but at least you have an option. Apple doesn’t even let you change the speakers, you get given a set amp and speaker and you have to use those two together and then even if you want a bit more bass doesn’t let you add a sub woofer or switch the speakers. You have to use that same setup they provided and are not allowed to modify it.
Good for less experienced users as it’s pretty much guaranteed to work firs time, frustrating for an audiophile trying to build their perfect system…
@zarch said:
Apple doesn't even let you change the speakers, you get given a set amp and speaker and you have to use those two together and then even if you want a bit more bass doesn't let you add a sub woofer or switch the speakers.
Yeh, when my really good Neumann or Meyer speakers break I'd rather shoot myself in the foot directly than trying to fix it myself. Even they have to do massive QC and have to trash some of the speakers rolling off their production lanes. I simply will never get close to that perfection. Like I say I can understand windows users when for years they know they have a better idea than the OS developer on how they should set up the system but thats not "normal".
Do you guys really think I am dumb and lie to myself and just pay more for a mac just because somebody thinks its cool? If not please stop trying to convince me its a bad decision ^^ I already said multiple times that PC's should definitely be in this world so we can play and combine to our hearts content. But at work I just want to connect an audio interface to a laptop install a sequencer software and record many channels of audio at once with short latency, so why the heck would I choose PC's for that? I'd be like Bart with the cupcakes. drrzzzt - ow! - drrzztt - ow! - drrzttt - ow! I stopped after the first two.
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@normen said:
And here you are telling us what they do can't be good.
Well, considering it took them at least 24 years to get from 1 button to a "multi-touch" (I read your post before you deleted it) 1-button mouse... O_o you can't call that "doing good" can you?
I can't find that Steve Jobs' quote about prices in the Amazon affair. But to paraphrase it, it was going along the lines of "We'll set the prices higher (than Amazon). People won't care because that's what they expect (buying from Apple means paying for more)." The ramification of this is staggering. Think what you're paying for your Mac and what it REALLY cost to make. Yes, yes. I do know an acknowledge that every corporation is entitled to make a profit, but greed... Greed is Apple's reason-d'être.
For anyone interested, here's an article about the Apple vs Amazon affair.
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@madjack said:
That's the perfect example of why I've never trusted and will never trust Apple. They HAVE to have a hand on everything. Like they were the only ones who can make perfect software. Oh wait... No such thing.
No flame wars please. Just stating a fact.
Peace. :)
Heheh. "Here, let me just pour this gasoline all over everything while I carefully place these candles everywhere so that you can see it better. Oh, don't start a fire anyone..."
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@madjack said:
Greed is Apple's reason-d'être.
This is your belief and the reason for your hatred. I believe they really want to make the best products and that this cost more than the production cost of one product. And I tried them. I never looked back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu0qeb_rJYU
@EmpirePhoenix said:
Actually I just wnated to try it out, but it is impossible for me to get that patch applied. Could you maybee just post the full modified files?
Sure,
http://www.4shared.com/zip/2DxQ3NxO/geom_tess.html
Thanks, just tested it, and works great. Also looks actually pretty clean already. hope this makes it soon to the core, untill then I have something to play with for a terrain shader.
@normen said:
Yeh, when my really good Neumann or Meyer speakers break I'd rather shoot myself in the foot directly than trying to fix it myself. Even they have to do massive QC and have to trash some of the speakers rolling off their production lanes.
You miss my meaning:
Lets say you saw a great amp from one supplier. But to use that amp you have to use the speakers they supply. Even if you need a different speaker for whatever reason (whether preference or to fit a certain room, or to get more bass, or whatever...The supplier doesn't care. You have to use the speakers they supplied). We're not talking rebuilding speakers here. We're talking attaching a different set of speakers to an amp.
That's apple.
It's great so long as you want to do exactly what they want you to and nothing else. But once you try and do something they didn't expect, or didn't think of, or just decided they didn't like...then you are screwed.
You seem to think I'm making some sort of personal attack here and I'm really not. I'm explaining why Apple is not right for me and why I personally wouldn't ever use them. If on the other hand the benefits of the controlled environment for you outweigh the drawbacks then that is your decision and I'm happy for you.
1 Like