USE the SDK (MINI RANT)

I think he was referring to the fact that netbeans GUI (which he dislikes) isn’t going to change anytime soon, so he doesn’t want to use the SDK when he can use the same features in eclipse

sdk ftw <3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XglN7yZ-Njo

@glaucomardano said:
This is a contradition ;).

I think it would make more sense phrased as: "i don't see any benefit using the SDK, especially when...i can use many of the benefits of the SDK [with eclipse] anyway."

Still, seems like a lot of unnecessary overhead to be so stubborn.
@HeroHero said:
How can you say that a java program not being "very java-ish" is a bad thing? I don't like when java GUIs look so stereotypically 'java' that you know it's java at first glance. If anything it shows off the power of java to people who otherwise believe the "java-look" is all that can come out of java.

Also, to combat your anecdotal evidence with my own anecdotal evidence, I have not had any issues running eclipse on any platform and it does perform much "smoother" than NetBeans.

a) I mean the API and cross-platformability
b) Yeah exactly, self-fulfilling prophecy.
In eclipse you also know how to fix problems which makes them seem less severe. In a "new IDE" just adding a library can become a nuisance if you don't know how but giving up at that level or let alone believing the new IDE cannot do what you ask is pretty naive.
Though this bit might seem like an advantage.. from all I see in the forum most "knowledge" people have from Eclipse leads them down roads that cause trouble with jme (e.g. deployment, asset management etc.). Just because its easy for you to create some generic java application with GUI in eclipse doesn't necessarily mean its easy for you to set up a jME3 game.

I occasionally use eclipse for casual development because jmp always crashes all the time in linux :confused: like every 5 minutes.

@normen said:
Though this bit might seem like an advantage.. from all I see in the forum most "knowledge" people have from Eclipse leads them down roads that cause trouble with jme (e.g. deployment, asset management etc.). Just because its easy for you to create some generic java application with GUI in eclipse doesn't necessarily mean its easy for you to set up a jME3 game.

Yeah, I see that quite often too. I don't use many of the eclipse features aside from auto-completing methods and variables. At most I'll have it format some left-aligned code or generate some setters/getters. And all of this Netbeans can do equally well. Maybe I just like eclipse better out-of-the-box; I don't spend much time tweaking an IDE.

I wonder if UDK users complain about their IDE and want to use eclipse…i guess it’s really a Java developer thing…



What bothers me the most is support. Eclipse users (not all of them ofc but some) still come here and complain about project configuration.

When they are told “use the sdk, it’s all packaged and all of this is done for you by checking a box”, we are answered “Naah i don’t use the SDK because it’s netbeans and I prefer to the look of Eclipse, so help me now”.



This just sound like self inflicted pain to me…



Use what you like guys, we’re ok about this. But just know that if you use eclipse you miss some awesome features of JME’s SDK.

@normen said:
a) The only argument ever
b) Because you do something completely different with a completely different workspace anyway. I use eclipse for GWT for example. Why would I want all my game development tools cluttering my IDE when I code GWT apps? How does my Eclipse/GWT knowledge help me when coding a game?
c) answer is in b) also NetBeans supports other languages just as well and if its something external thats compatible with jME we'll most probably also prepare the integration with the SDK, so no need for any "IDE knowledge" anyway.
d) I even prepared it so that you can use them concurrently, with an eclipse project. Still people whine about they want the stuff to be redone in eclipse every once in a while (got better though).
e) Using a native windowing environment for java thats not even very compatible across platforms, proprietary, closed-source and not very java-ish in general as the main argument doesn't sound like a good argument from a java programmer :P

Eclipse also crashes and bugs on me all the time like virtually every software on this planet when you really use it so don't tell me NetBeans sucks so much or cannot compete. I completely agree everybody should use the IDE that he sees fit best but eclipse fanboys have to admit its only because of the GUI. ;P


b.) i have multiple workspaces in eclipse as well, and every workspace is set up the way i need it. But having it all in one IDE is IMHO the better way.
d.) well, if i decide NOT to use the SDK i should not complain about those things. I mean hey, you guys provide the SDK, and if i decide not to use it who am i to complain about it?
e.) I completely disagree. I like it when things integrate well into another. I am using both Linux (Ubuntu 11.10) and Windows 7. I simply dont hate anything more than UIs that look much different then the look of the operating system. Using SWT, my application works well both on Windows and on Linux and integrates very well into the native look. And besides, no matter how moch work you invest into Swings Look & Feel, it stays simply ugly as hell. besides, i don't think that using java automatically sticks you to the idiom that you should only use open source and no native things. By that, you simply limit youself. Beside, being proprietary is not necessary a bad thing. Just because open source booms it doesn't mean open source is THE answer to all question. But that is another discussion that has not really to do anything with the SDK or jME ;)

As to the crashes and bugs, on my system eclipse seems to work much better then netbeans. I tested netbeans the last time ~1.5 years ago, and it was simply slow and crashed an loading some javadocs. The SDK is still quite slow in my system, compared to eclipse. I never had crashing issues with eclipse. I think that is just the kind of anectodal experience that everyone has with some software, it's not limited on discussions about IDEs ;)

But, on the very end, we should not forget that using the SDK or not is not necessary an eclipse vs. netbeans discussion. There are plenty more IDEs that also support Java, that one might consider "better" in some way then netbeans (or eclipse, for that matter).

What bothers me the most is support. Eclipse users (not all of them ofc but some) still come here and complain about project configuration.
When they are told “use the sdk, it’s all packaged and all of this is done for you by checking a box”, we are answered “Naah i don’t use the SDK because it’s netbeans and I prefer to the look of Eclipse, so help me now”.

Tell them they should learn how to use their "loved" IDE in the first place. Setting up jME in eclipse really is not that complicated. If you have to ask for that, you have bigger issues anyways.
@polygnome said:
And besides, no matter how moch work you invest into Swings Look & Feel, it stays simply ugly as hell.

Java apps look 1:1 the same as native apps on macosx and for most other systems (windows/linux) theres look and feels for that platform as well. Apple showed its possible to properly combine swing and their UI system, the SWT developers apparently gave up early and came up with their own solution which certainly didn't help java especially through the years of confusion by Microsoft. Personally I always chuckle when I open an Eclipse app as it doesn't integrate with the rest of the systems UI as well and is thus spotted even more easily (at least on mac).
@nehon said:
I wonder if UDK users complain about their IDE and want to use eclipse....i guess it's really a Java developer thing...


They sure do:
http://uceditor.sourceforge.net/

In generall tho I can understand persons who sue every key combo and used eclipse for years, and like it because of that and the GUI, but I agree if tis like that video a few posts up, then its their own fault.

I dont know what I should think about the SDK. For me it is useful, (didnt use Netbeans/Eclipse before) and there are all tools combined in the SDK. On the other hand I know some Eclipse fetishist who dont want to use Netbeans. Besides I think about letting the user/player of my Project to add own content and this would be easier if they could use the material/model editor without downloading the whole JMonkey SDK…

@ogerlord said:
Besides I think about letting the user/player of my Project to add own content and this would be easier if they could use the material/model editor without downloading the whole JMonkey SDK...

It makes no sense doing the things that the SDK does outside the context of a project because of the paths, custom code etc. Model editing should be done in model editors. Thats why all people starting "command line exporter" projects etc. eventually fail.